Setup for GM LLT 3.6L V6 questions

[SQCTS]

All i would say is that your numbers are idealistic where everything is 100% efficient and batteries have no IR..

1)A battery charged to 48 will not deliver 48v under load

Agreed and understand this.

2) Motors, ESC, Wiring have losses so required current/electrical power will be higher than the mechanical power you need to apply.

Yep understand this very much. I have used unit with regulated and unregulated power supplies for year and delt with system with massive current drew in cars. And Wire loss do distance vs guage size.

3) A motor with a 750KV with 40volts applied gives you a theoretical RPM of 30,000prm But this is unloaded RPM. RPM underload ( compressing AIR ) will be much lower.

Got it!! So 60V looks like a more realistic option for my setup using the TP5870.

4)"Now at 60 volts that out side of the 53 volt rating of the TP5870" 53v is not the max voltage of the motor. The numbers given for the Different KV's are what would give you their max power ratings and Max RPMS. You can give the motor more voltage if you don't exceed the RPM or Power ratings.

So 60 volts it is. Really not going to go higher than this.

5) All the numbers (Current) motioned are constant numbers and therefore is the Lowest theoretical numbers. The motor will pull many times these numbers in "Stall" so you'll need to manage the ramp up speed of the motors to not pull crazy Current. OR have massive over spec ESC to allow for this.

So the APD NV-Pro 20s or as i said still seems like the best options at it rated 100V and 300 continuously power rating and 450 peak.

Once more thanks for all the input.

So do you think the battery pack I list is a good options?

16s1p

60V

6500mAH

390WH

I was think of doing 3 of them in parallel.

 

[MkngStffAwesome]

The batteries are a unknown entity .. so who knows...

 

[AlexLTDLX]

I'm in the middle of a bathroom remodel (that's why I haven't been on here much since last Wednesday); but it looks overall like you're on the right track. I pretty much agree with MSA's points. Basically, if you use the same motor I'm using (TP Power 5870); the Speedmaster blower (which by all accounts appears to be a Vortech Si - which I have), and you can generate 52 volts at the ESC under load (you can buy the APD NV Pro 20s, or you could use the same one I am and save $600 - The HV Pro 16s and have a sustained 400 amps and a 600 amps burst, then you'll be able to support about 650 flywheel horsepower at 5 psi boost average. As boost goes up, HP supported goes down - though nobody knows exactly how much yet.

In other words, as long as you can maintain voltage under load, you should vastly exceed your expectations.

 

[SQCTS]

I'm in the middle of a bathroom remodel (that's why I haven't been on here much since last Wednesday); but it looks overall like you're on the right track. I pretty much agree with MSA's points. Basically, if you use the same motor I'm using (TP Power 5870); the Speedmaster blower (which by all accounts appears to be a Vortech Si - which I have), and you can generate 52 volts at the ESC under load (you can buy the APD NV Pro 20s, or you could use the same one I am and save $600 - The HV Pro 16s and have a sustained 400 amps and a 600 amps burst, then you'll be able to support about 650 flywheel horsepower at 5 psi boost average. As boost goes up, HP supported goes down - though nobody knows exactly how much yet.

In other words, as long as you can maintain voltage under load, you should vastly exceed your expectations.

Yep i was just looking at 16s and 16s it is.

 

[SQCTS]

The batteries are a unknown entity .. so who knows...

I have rule the out. They are LG batteries and found the same ones on Ebay he offered me they are from a Hyundai Ioniq EV car. I am just going with some LiFePo4 units for now to get it all up and running and once I watch you guys teat on the other units I can rebuild my packs. It looks like to get the power I want from 3.6L DI V6, to get to my 325- 350 wheel HP I 4-5 psi and a impelled speed of 24-28k rmp I need at least 50+ volts at the ESC under load. So i am going to do As close to 60 volts as I can on the Battery setup.

 

[cmoalem]

16s LifePO4 has "nominal 48V" and is getting charged up to 58.4 V (16x3.65). (this is the theory!)

You need to look at the discharge curves of the LifePO4 cell "of choice" under different C discharges to estimate behaviour under load.

I have found below test of ANR26650 grade A cells:



If you look e.g. at the 20A (per cell) discharge curve, you will see that a 16s10p will give you around (16x2.9V)46.4V@(10x20)200A in the plateau area, assume more voltage drop when more amps are drawn (or build with more p to distribute draw!).

(on a side note: I personally have picked the APD HV pro 16s as my ESC of choice ... I want to rather stick to 16s LifePO4 (48V) and build the battery right with enough p than just shift the overall voltage up with more s. Having said that, of course I know the APD 16s is rated for LiPO 16s which is higher than 58.4V by a significant bit (16x4.2, 67.2) and I want that 400A cushion!
16s LifePO4 is well supported by aftermarket! BMS, good chargers, even the on board smart alternator charger ... if you have an odd nominal voltage / s number you need to do a lot more yourself!)

 

[cmoalem]

16s LifePO4 has "nominal 48V" and is getting charged up to 58.4 V (16x3.65). (this is the theory!)

You need to look at the discharge curves of the LifePO4 cell "of choice" under different C discharges to estimate behaviour under load.

I have found below test of ANR26650 grade A cells:

View attachment 102

If you look e.g. at the 20A (per cell) discharge curve, you will see that a 16s10p will give you around (16x2.9V)46.4V@(10x20)200A in the plateau area, assume more voltage drop when more amps are drawn (or build with more p to distribute draw!).

(on a side note: I personally have picked the APD HV pro 16s as my ESC of choice ... I want to rather stick to 16s LifePO4 (48V) and build the battery right with enough p than just shift the overall voltage up with more s. Having said that, of course I know the APD 16s is rated for LiPO 16s which is higher than 58.4V by a significant bit (16x4.2, 67.2) and I want that 400A cushion!
16s LifePO4 is well supported by aftermarket! BMS, good chargers, even the on board smart alternator charger ... if you have an odd nominal voltage / s number you need to do a lot more yourself!)

and in contrast here the ahr32113 discharge sheet (as advertised):
note 20C is about 90A (4.5 Ah capacity)


I managed to order 80 (16x5) of those type cells on AliExpress for USD 383 shipped. My battery will be 16s5p (~65cmx20cmx15cm in a cell holder tray) and good for 675A continuous discharge (rated 30 C).

Cell testing and reporting pending ... stay tuned.

Another interesting A123 LifePO4 variant would be the 32157! A bit taller, 8Ah capacity and 30C continuous (240A per cell!) as well.
Hard to find ... but AliBaba has some vendors listed.

 

[MkngStffAwesome]

YUP thanks for that they are good examples of what i was saying... that there is theory and then there is reality ... or how someone else puts it..

"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." - Yogi Berra


AHAHHAHAHAHAHHH