Setup for GM LLT 3.6L V6 questions

S

SQCTS

Member
First let say i am over excited to be a member here. I very much like a kid in a candy right looking for info and parts list to start my project.

So what seen from the what newbies to know post as a member had the LFX 3.6L V6 which is the slight new version of the LLT 3.6L V6 in my CTS. He was think of using a procharger P600B unit.

Questions:

1. Is there any disadvantages with just using the P2SC you recommended as a starting point? Beside size?

2. With my setup the TP5860 motor should work correct? And should I be looking to us the 16s version as you recommended for the TP5870.

My goal is nothing crazy. Just want a very nice daily driver if choose to drive it that much. That 400hp to 500hp is right where I want to be. The GM LLT the 2011 CTS is rate at 304HP stock.

I will have more question coming as I read more on this amazing forum. Maybe having this in one place others with similar sized engines may be of help.

This is very exciting.
 
Heck, I think I'm going to get one of those too. It's a very versatile size blower, and well matched to the TP Power motors. I LOVE my APD ESC. This is the one I'm talking about:


Way better than the Chinese units that were exploding around me before. I know it's not cheap, but it's SO worth it. Not only is it super compact, it's also easy to program, has a ton of built-in protections, and can push the TP Power motors to their limits without being too much (meaning expensive) and the best part - the datalogs - you can see exactly what your e-turbo is doing. Plus their support guys are awesome.

I've posted a follow up on the "Here's the supercharger I would start with..." thread that you might find useful. If you're good with sourcing batteries (a lot of used, but good, hybrid and electric car battery modules are starting to hit ebay for cheap), you could do this whole thing for $3,000 USD or less - and $2,100 of that is the blower and ESC.

To answer your other questions - yes, go for the 16s motors. Voltage = RPM, at least in my testing so far. Without enough voltage under load, the ESC has to start limiting the duty cycle of the motor.
 
AlexLTDLX said:
Heck, I think I'm going to get one of those too. It's a very versatile size blower, and well matched to the TP Power motors. I LOVE my APD ESC. This is the one I'm talking about:


Way better than the Chinese units that were exploding around me before. I know it's not cheap, but it's SO worth it. Not only is it super compact, it's also easy to program, has a ton of built-in protections, and can push the TP Power motors to their limits without being too much (meaning expensive) and the best part - the datalogs - you can see exactly what your e-turbo is doing. Plus their support guys are awesome.

I've posted a follow up on the "Here's the supercharger I would start with..." thread that you might find useful. If you're good with sourcing batteries (a lot of used, but good, hybrid and electric car battery modules are starting to hit ebay for cheap), you could do this whole thing for $3,000 USD or less - and $2,100 of that is the blower and ESC.

To answer your other questions - yes, go for the 16s motors. Voltage = RPM, at least in my testing so far. Without enough voltage under load, the ESC has to start limiting the duty cycle of the motor.
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Wow that even better 300 for 100-150Hp i am all in. Question where can get the water cooled jacket for the power supply
 
I just used cheap CPU cooling blocks off Amazon. These are the ones I ordered:
click here

If you buy from that link (don't know what country you're in) I'll get a small commission (I'm an Amazon affiliate).

If you can't for whatever reason, here's a direct link:
 
Ok question and if I overlooked it on one of the other threads place forgive me. What would be the disadvantages of using a turbo as a T3-T4 or a GT35 or some bigger in place of the P2SC.
 
SQCTS said:
Ok question and if I overlooked it on one of the other threads place forgive me. What would be the disadvantages of using a turbo as a T3-T4 or a GT35 or some bigger in place of the P2SC.
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1. any SC or turbo other than the P2 would need some more trimming/machining to fix the emotor.
2. turbos : usually they require a LOT of rpms ... more than the emotors we are looking at can deliver!
3. The P2 is a Vortech V2 Si trim variant. Plenty "big"! many 5.0 to 5.7 V8 users develop whopping power with them (with the right gearing/step up).
4. Our 3.6 V6 engines natirally aspirated require what? 350CFM air at 5000rpm? The V2/P2 in Si trim would give you ~6psi boost at 22000 emotor rpm for the 350CFM natural air consumption (@ 5000 3.6 V6 engine rpm). and efficiency of the P2 would be at the lower tip of the "good" island in the V2 SC map. Actually we need to be careful to not over feed our tiny 3.6s with the P2 🤣

Having said thad: I'd rather have a bigger blower and tune my emotor down than a smaller eblower and a screaching emotor.

Oh ... and the V2/V3 vortechs are quite popular on some 3.8 and 3.6 Jeep engine setups. See RIPP superchargers for Wranglers... (they used to have a Colorado SC based on the V3, but they never got the ECU tune right and many owners blew their engines. So they ditched their GM 3.6 product! We have the advantage of independence from engine RPMs and can stay safe(r)!)
Another indicator that they will work well with our GM 3.6s ... all a matter of emotor control in relation to engine rpm/load request ... and ECM tune!

Btw ... I am planning on adding to the ESC module another "variable boost controller" with some smart engine sensor closed loop control 😜

Our 3.6 engine internals will survive well with 6-8psi boost ... see e.g. Mallett SCs (LFX and LGZ), Rotrex for the LGZ 3.6, Edelbrock for the LGZ as well.
370-400 RWhp vs stock 240RWhp (rear wheel, not crank!)

If you go higher, then you need to look at GM LF3/LF4 internals (complicated!).
 
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Turbos generally require much higher impeller rpm and you'll need to fabricate your own shaft bearing setup. In other words, it's a lot more challenging to make work. Lol, I see cmoalem beat me to it...
 
Thanks guys for the detailed replies. A friend asked and I honestly didn't have a good answer for him besides RPM and thought the supercharger would be more efficient.
 
Also the overkill is a popular choice for the GM 3.6L engine with the Camaro crowd. But it like 6 or 7k now.

 
SQCTS said:
Also the overkill is a popular choice for the GM 3.6L engine with the Camaro crowd. But it like 6 or 7k now.

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yep ... and the procharger crowd.

Don't forget, all these kits come with custom tubing, partially more or less sophisticated intetcooling and recirc bypass or blow off valves.
AND a TUNE!

Here we are really diy ing our way forward ... we might save a bit, but when it comes to solving all the daily driver and reliabilty and handling issues and THE TUNE we might have actually spent more. (and it is more risky!)

BUT this is FUN, INNOVATION and a sneak peek into the future.

So ... gear and egg heads will feel in their element here!

Anyone expecting just a "cheap way into boost": NOT YET I would say ...
 
cmoalem said:
yep ... and the procharger crowd.

Don't forget, all these kits come with custom tubing, partially more or less sophisticated intetcooling and recirc bypass or blow off valves.
AND a TUNE!

Here we are really diy ing our way forward ... we might save a bit, but when it comes to solving all the daily driver and reliabilty and handling issues and THE TUNE we might have actually spent more. (and it is more risky!)

BUT this is FUN, INNOVATION and a sneak peek into the future.

So ... gear and egg heads will feel in their element here!

Anyone expecting just a "cheap way into boost": NOT YET I would say ...
Click to expand...
Agreed i sent a few emails to a few of those guys about tuning the setup and what do they think would be different than a tune for their setup. As companies like OVERKILL and TRIFECTA and KPE
 
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My next question want to you guys.

Less talk batteries for the setup.Voltage, Capacity , Discharge rate etc... for a daily driver to make that 6 psi for the 3.6L.

Thinking a 48V setup the APD ESC HV-Pro if remember reading correctly it can handle 48V.

I know the Lipo are the most desirable, however I was thinking 4 of these; pairs wired in series and then the pairs wired parallel.

Capacity: 5000mAh
Configuration: 6S1P / 22.2v / 6 cell
Discharge: 60C / 120C (Burst)

If that would work.

Or maybe 4 these E-Bike units (quite a bit more costly more than twice the cost)

Minimum Capacity: 22000mAh
Configuration: 6S1P / 22.2V / 6Cell
Constant Discharge: 30C


Please correct me if i am wrong. I am here to learn also. I can build / fabricate just about about thing, but the numbers are making my head hurt lol.
 
You should be trying to run the highest Voltage possible.
Using Lipos is a bad idea for many reasons.. like they shouldn't be stored charged.. their well documented ability to catch fire..
What is red line for your engine.. you can then work out about how much power you'll need.
 
Well you need about 18.5hp 13.8kw for a 3.6L @ 6 psi

At 22.2v that is 621 amps.. and that's assuming no voltage drop... 22v is completely impractical

CLICK HERE

There are other options other than Lifepo4 it's just that lipos are far from the safest option...
 
Guys ... this site is becoming a "crowd engineering" site ... LOVE it.

Thanks @All ... especially @AlexLTDLX and @MkngStffAwesome !
(no offense to everybody else, pretty sure there is some awesome stuff going on which has not yet found its way over the keyboard ...)

Currently rethinking a lot of things: targeted Voltage (even 48V is on the low side!), picked Motor (The TP5860 with 1000KV) is not going to produce 13.8 kW for a reasonable period of time AND still be durable/reliable).

Assuming my P-2 is a Vortech Si trim knockoff and looking at the compressor map attached (found here: https://vortechsuperchargers.com/pages/compressor-maps ) I would say for our 3.6 with 3000-6000 engine rpm (~270CFM uncorrected - ~540CFM uncorrected) I would say not too shabby for a 1.4 pressure ratio ( 6psi boost) target.
We would only need ~28k impeller rpms for that!
Interesting: 20k rpms upwards slight (2-3 psi) boost is being built accross the 3.6 working range.
(And the surge line is nicely left of our working area...!)

AND: if we later want to compensate for boost pressure drop (when ICs come into play) we only need room to go up to 31is krpms with the impeller :)

Backtracking to the emotor: Not the best choice, there might be better motors out there! (TP5860 with 1000KV and 30V on the motor to turn 30k rpms it would pull GOBS of amps! With 750KV it would require 40V ... still gobs of amps will be flowing...)
 

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