Start running into issues TP motor oversaturated?

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Hey guys, has you know my set up is almost done! BUT I start having issues today!
I have a 4070-CM TP motor. 34v 9000 watts **max**. Currently I have 50v battery and Im not sure how much watts Im pulling off right now but im pretty sure it's at least 13'000 watts. Even last year I was pushing the motor to its limit but now I'm way over it. I talk to my brother and we can assume that the coating on the wire inside the motor short when it's getting too hot. So maybe it's time to change to motor! I look at the 5670-CM and I think it's going to be a little bit more powerfull! And I can stay clost to the specs with this one compare too the 4070-CM
 
That sucks to hear. Have you pulled the datalog from the ESC? If you have the USB adapter, it's easy to do. That will tell you how much power you were pushing through it. Another option is to get a milliohm meter - that way you can measure the phases with accuracy and find out if you do have shorted coils (it'd have to get pretty hot to melt/burn the enamel coating (needs to get to at least 300* c)). They're not cheap - $96 USD for the one I have: https://amzn.to/3a9W3aj but very useful. If you still just want to try a new motor, look into the Castle Creations motor I've got sitting here - they're cheaper, better built and have sensors (plus easier to get): https://amzn.to/3R6Xp62 It's Castle Creations 2028, btw. That should do quite well in your setup.
 
Its weird because the motor never get crazy hot when I totch it. I will pull the datalog out of it maybe today.
It's hard to get infos out of the castle motor. Sure its interesting and I almost buy a castle motor for my first set up but there was not a lot infos.
They said 40k rpm for the castle motor but I'm way over this RPM. Anyway I will see the datalog tonight and give you feedback
 
I remember you said that someone push the castle motor verry hard with no problems. should I contact them with the datalog and specs I want? because if we look the 5670-CM is twice the KV of the 2028 castle. The TP RPM is verry interesting for me
 
this is the datalog of the ESC. The question I have, MGM said the ESC have a max continuous current of 400A. is this the Input current or the peak current.
now it's still impressive with a peak of 14k watts, 68K impeller RPM. TP-power specs is 2200KV at 34V, 5000w continuous and 9000w max 75k RPM max.
I now use 50v battery. A lot more than the specs.
over all I'm happy with it.
I'm thincking of the 5670-CM because is right in the ball parc. 12'000w max, 85k RPM, 1300kv for 50v.
I will contact castle motor if they can do something similar!
BTW **the graph where 3 graph merge, it's where it failed.(purple peak current, green RPM, yellow input current)**
 

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First of all, wow. Which exact trim of turbo is your GT35? I'd like to find the right compressor map. You're averaging a lot of power in the electric turbo - I'm getting a bit over 11kW, based on your logs. More than double that of a Torqamp. I also think you might be in the same place I am - in choke (which is why I'd like to see an actual compressor map for that turbo.) To be honest, I didn't expect to see that much rpm.

FWIW, your logs look completely different than mine. I don't have peak current, battery internal voltage, etc. But I am concerned about the peak current, as well as though wide voltage swings - which seem to follow through on motor RPM. Without engine data, it's a bit hard to tell, but that looks more like surge than choke. What I'm saying is, I don't know. If it was me, the first thing I would do would be to test the ESC and make sure it's ok. Which exact ESC are you using again?

I might also send that over to MGM and see what they say. You're running very short battery cables, right? Again, those fluctations and the extremely high current peaks have me a little concerned...
 
It's supposed to be a GT3582 with AR.70.
To see more infos in the datalog you can clic here. You should be able to have a lot more.Screenshot_20220705-064536__01.jpgI think it's a good idea to send this to MGM. They help me a lot last time!
My ESC is the 40063 (400a continuous 500a peak).
 
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I did go back and double-check my logs and they are indeed different from yours. If your boost level is correct and it is a GT3582, you should be making around 350hp. What's your car's base hp? At 5 psi, to hit 350hp, your engine needs to be around 270 n/a. Is that right? If so, then everything's about where I'd expect it to be. If not, we'll have to dive deeper and see what's going on. Do you have any way to test the ESC at low power just to make sure it's ok? Those current peaks are higher than mine (which is why I'm concerned).
 
My base car HP is 170
I think I make arround 250 right now.
I have nothing to test the ESC unfortunatly. I send my datalog to Marek
I look my datalog of last year, wich Marek had a look too and all look fine. I had the same type of peak current spikes but less then this one. Its weird because the voltage ≈45v x ≈300a input current give 13'500w. But why peak current of almost 800a, where does that go?
 
Yeah, that's what I'm wondering too. Also, the numbers aren't lining up - at 5 psi, you'd be at about 55,000 rpm, and about 220-240 hp. But you're 8,000 rpm above that, and I'd expect to see a higher boost number. Also, that's a lot of electrical power for that hp level - on the 1st version of the electric Vortech (the one that used a TP power motor), we saw and average of 5 psi (6 psi peak, 4 psi at peak engine power) and made about 650hp using 13.8 kW - your average power is only a bit over 2kW less.

I'm wondering about that turbo - is it a chinese knockoff or the real thing? If you had another brushless motor - literally anything cheap and small, you could run a small battery pack (like 2-4s) and test the ESC with it just to make sure the output transistors are ok.

Those TP Power motors take a good amount of abuse - with all my ESC failures and everything, mine still works fine and measures perfectly.

The only other thing I can think of is is the motor in a place where it can get hot from engine heat? Anything over 180* F (~80* C) can damage the magnets.
 
It's a chinese knock off I paid less then 100$ for the compressor and wheel.
The motor is placed where it have less heat. When I go for a ride, boost the turbo, stop and totch the motor, its not that hot.
Your's take a lot of abuse but, that much abuse? Sure I will look closer with the respons of Marek and will keep you update.
I will take out the turbo this week end and have a look on the motor to see if it still spin.
 
When I couldn't get the motor to sync with the long cables, it would so violently chatter that it'd pull the drive bolt out. Since I've gone to sensored operation, it's all perfect. But who knows? Definitely keep this thread updated and I'll help when I can - plus I want to see what exactly happened.
 
hello! yes you are pushing hard your emotor :) , but those spikes looks like on the VESC forum with the video where Benjamin sets that propeller in vesc.
if you are really at 68k rpm, the gt35 is moving some air what i think is too much for your engine on that boost level, and it just cant push it through the engine and needs more power.
 
To put you in context,
I ask him if I should be worried about the spikes and the "peak current"
"Input current" and "peak current" is 2 thing different. In case I explain everything wrong, I screenshot his response and let you understand it.
I will definitely change my motor.
My main big mistake is trying the 34v motor with the 50v battery
Screenshot_20220708-102007.jpg
 
Yeah, overvolting a brushless motor is a tricky proposition when running it at full load. I'm still learning about all the potential fallout of doing it. In fact, I'm not actually over-volting my LMT motor because of voltage drop.
 
I did it in the extreme and it pay of 🤣 but a little too much! Im talcking with the castle guy and I ask him if I can overvolting it a little bit. I want to run it 11s to be at 36 with a drop of arround 33v. Over volting it will drop to his spec. But running it 12s to be a little bit over even with the voltage drop, is it better? Or should I go and throw all the amps I have. This is the question I ask him
 
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