Boost with EDF? (electric ducted fan)

AlexLTDLX

AlexLTDLX

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I was thinking about this last night and it's completely different. How about running high power EDF units (you know, like the cheap "electric turbo" garbage that gave all this stuff a bad rap in the first place) for boost? I wonder if those can actually create any significant pressure? I kind of doubt it, but could be good for a small HP boost, and can be easily installed.

Something like this:
www.ebay.com

JP 120mm 12S 12 Blades EDF Ducted Fan with 5060-750KV Brushless Motor(CCW） | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for JP 120mm 12S 12 Blades EDF Ducted Fan with 5060-750KV Brushless Motor(CCW） at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com

Thoughts?
 
Here a "slightly" bigger one is being tested :

and here:

and these aluminium EDFs look solid too:


the question remains: lots of static thrust means lots of boost and flow?

He of course is explaining a bit regarding the terminology :

😛
 
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Ok ... Axial Flow Superchargers would be the Key Word...
And Latham Superchargers .. and Richard Paul Axialflow Engineering

Products - Axial Flow Super Charger & Short Shifter

Axial Flow Superchargers in custom flow and pressure. Kits for selected cars. Short Shifters
www.axialflow.com
... and here some "recent" nearly 20 year old conversation:

Axial Flow Supercharger - RX8Club.com

Series I Major Horsepower Upgrades - Axial Flow Supercharger - AXIAL FLOW SUPERCHARGER We are about to market a new supercharger. This is of the axial flow type. Similar to aircraft jet engines or gas turbines. While very complex to engineer and produce it is worth it. It is smaller, lighter and...
www.rx8club.com

Axial Flow Supercharger - RX8Club.com

Series I Major Horsepower Upgrades - Axial Flow Supercharger - AXIAL FLOW SUPERCHARGER We are about to market a new supercharger. This is of the axial flow type. Similar to aircraft jet engines or gas turbines. While very complex to engineer and produce it is worth it. It is smaller, lighter and...
www.rx8club.com

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and further down ... very interesting read!

But not exactly a simple EDF ... Axial yes, but very special blades, arranged in "stages"!

Unfortunately he sold his prototype on ebay (see here: https://bangshift.com/bangshift1320...impse-one-rarest-speed-parts-available-1960s/)


MAN e.g. is serious about it!

 
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ooops ... there is a 20 year old patent which has meanwhile EXPIRED!

US6328024B1 - Axial flow electric supercharger - Google Patents

A supercharger employing an axial flow electric compressor or fan is described with its various connections to an internal combustion engine to obtain more power from the engine. A control system is also described to operate the supercharger from the throttle mechanism to obtain extra power with...
patents.google.com

@AlexLTDLX : quick! here is the shiznit! 😜
 
Those are some great finds! I was thinking more "off the shelf" stuff - thus EDFs. But you're right - axial compressors are pretty badass, but they're also complicated and difficult to manufacture. Though I wonder if you took several EDFs, and put them in series to get some pressure (I'm assuming the motor mounting ribs function as "stators"), would you get any measurable boost? That last article you posted says axial compressors are more efficient than centrifugal compressors - that's something I didn't know. My cousin is an engineer at Pratt & Whitney - he does destructive testing. I wonder if he knows more info on axial compressors? The thing that scares me the most with this idea is that a lot of parts are in the airflow stream. If any one of them fails, it's going into your engine...
 
Lol. That guy's trying to run it off the car's electrical system and only one stage. Not a chance that works (any more than a good ram air) - won't make any measurable boost. Once again, cmoalem, you are just a font of sources! Thanks!
 
not sure if this forum is still running but i have been very interested in your youtube channel for a long time and also been looking into edfs and axial flow compressors. the research i have done seems to be that axial flow compressors are a substernal amount more efficient when in their desired operating range which was hard with the latham chargers but with electric drive you would solve that issue.
as for edfs i think its definitely possible they definitely have the cfm and flow but pressure is not their strong suite. but thats where series comes in.
i think they would need 3d printed stators to help make the flow liniar into the next fan but thats not hard. i might have to do a little experimenting.
 
It is, I just don't have much time to devote to it these days. I'm planning on dyno testing one on my youtube channel soon.
 
AlexLTDLX said:
I was thinking about this last night and it's completely different. How about running high power EDF units (you know, like the cheap "electric turbo" garbage that gave all this stuff a bad rap in the first place) for boost? I wonder if those can actually create any significant pressure? I kind of doubt it, but could be good for a small HP boost, and can be easily installed.

Something like this:
www.ebay.com

JP 120mm 12S 12 Blades EDF Ducted Fan with 5060-750KV Brushless Motor(CCW） | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for JP 120mm 12S 12 Blades EDF Ducted Fan with 5060-750KV Brushless Motor(CCW） at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
The right combo would most certainly offer a bit of performance increase. I actually looked at the one you have linked to a couple years earlier. Of course you understand ducted fan motor limitations being that they can not compress very much air however they can move a lot of it. I did purchase a few inexpensive ones a couple years back when I started looking into brushless motors before having a good understanding of ESC and battery ratings and let me tell you first hand, they are some POWERFUL little motors and what I have are only 50 mm versions. If you're not careful while holding it, it can pull out of your hand as it produces a tremendous amount of thrust for its size.

I can see them delivering as much performance as a good camshaft upgrade without the bottom end loss in efficiency and definitely more intrigued about trying one or two in series. I purchased mine through aliexpress.
 
Out of interest, we tried this, not to make power, to work as some form of anti-lag device, blowing in to the compressor inlet to help spin the turbo (so would switch off once the turbo was making a decent amount of boost).

I used a 110mm 12S setup, lots of power, quite comical how powerful it was, which was a good sign.

Unfortunately it did not have any good effect at all, at any rpm, in any situation, in fact it seemed to make things a little worse at times if anything.

It 'may' have been improved is with a throttle on the boost pipe venting to atmo to allow open flow post compressor, which should allow it to work better, but the fact the initial results were so bad, it didn't seem worth the effort of trying.

The engine was very small (1.8ltr) and the turbo was deliberately overly big (76mm inducer) to make any positive effect more notable, but nope.

Was an interesting experiment, but a total fail.
 
StavTech said:
Out of interest, we tried this, not to make power, to work as some form of anti-lag device, blowing in to the compressor inlet to help spin the turbo (so would switch off once the turbo was making a decent amount of boost).

I used a 110mm 12S setup, lots of power, quite comical how powerful it was, which was a good sign.

Unfortunately it did not have any good effect at all, at any rpm, in any situation, in fact it seemed to make things a little worse at times if anything.

It 'may' have been improved is with a throttle on the boost pipe venting to atmo to allow open flow post compressor, which should allow it to work better, but the fact the initial results were so bad, it didn't seem worth the effort of trying.

The engine was very small (1.8ltr) and the turbo was deliberately overly big (76mm inducer) to make any positive effect more notable, but nope.

Was an interesting experiment, but a total fail.
Click to expand...
I was convinced of this after doing some more research and realizing that if the leaf blower experiments were marginally influential that the ducted fan motors would have little to no effect moving the same amount of air but in a smaller package. Simply put, there's very little compression of the air which is necessary to generate sufficient velocity and volume with force to make sure the air rushes into the cylinder and packs itself in.

Luckily I figured it out before investing $250 into a 100mm ducted fan.
 
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