Here is the supercharger I would start with...

[AlexLTDLX]

If I was starting my particular project from scratch, here's the blower I would've started with. Relatively cheap, basically a Vortech knockoff but with a MUCH friendlier impeller drive mechanism to modify - no need to worry about oiling, and you could use a small gilmer belt to drive it (that would allow you to "tune" your motor ratio) or simply use the hex bolt/modified deep well socket concept. Far easier to implement. And at a price of only $625, you can't beat it for the flow - this should support at least 700 hp; probably more on the right combination. BTW - this is an affiliate link, so if you buy through this link (the best price you'll find anywhere), I get a couple of bucks to help keep the forum running:

Buy it here - click on this text

 

[ipepe]

For me it says that it's currently unavailable but I guess it has to be related to location of Europe. I have to say that in pictures it looks very promising in terms of converting it to electric one.

 

[cmoalem]

For me it says that it's currently unavailable but I guess it has to be related to location of Europe. I have to say that in pictures it looks very promising in terms of converting it to electric one.

look it up on ebay ... yesterday 12+ units available!
(ok ... here it is: https://www.ebay.com/itm/174050615552)

... and it is big in dimensions: 24cm x 24cm x 16cm ! the emotor will increase the 16cm quite a bit too!
here my target engine bay:

... looks like I would have to remove the whole air box to make room for this unit!

and for the US customers: according to some internet reports from 2011 the bolt holes (while identical in position to the Vortech unit) to screw it to a bracket are METRIC (Australian company).
(Yea ... was looking for some reviews yesterday, lol)

 

[cmoalem]

If I was starting my particular project from scratch, here's the blower I would've started with. Relatively cheap, basically a Vortech knockoff but with a MUCH friendlier impeller drive mechanism to modify - no need to worry about oiling, and you could use a small gilmer belt to drive it (that would allow you to "tune" your motor ratio) or simply use the hex bolt/modified deep well socket concept. Far easier to implement. And at a price of only $625, you can't beat it for the flow - this should support at least 700 hp; probably more on the right combination. BTW - this is an affiliate link, so if you buy through this link (the best price you'll find anywhere), I get a couple of bucks to help keep the forum running:

Buy it here - click on this text

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yep ... saw that on ebay yesterday while looking for a used unit to modify. sorting the list price wise ascending put that one on top

I liked the Gilmer pulley idea a lot, but somehow the post said something like "pulley to be ordered seperately" and "currently not available"

I would need 2, one for the charger and one same size (or slightly larger) for the motor, with the right ID and fixture... and a kind of mini tensioner setup... BUT it has its charme!

Most likely I would just couple the motor directly to that impeller axis!

 

[AlexLTDLX]

The Gilmer belt is interesting, and I do like the "tuneablity" of it, but I agree - I think direct driving the impeller is still the best idea. For people like us, the ability to swap out motors and battery packs is a really nice option. I'm working on a few things that might make things easier for everyone. But it will most likely take some time.

 

[cmoalem]

now ... and to have the right torque for overdrive I would slap this one on with the right gilmer pulley (1:5 ratio?) :

In Stock Maytech IP68 Waterproof MTI85165 200KV Inrunner Brushless Sen

Specification: Model No. MTI85165-200-WP KV 200, if you want other KV, contact agnes@maytech.cn Max Current 300A Input Voltage 6-12S Lipo (25-50V) for 200KV, 6-16S Lipo (25-67V) for 150KV Max Output Voltage 10.5KW Shaft Keyway Shaft Hall Sensor Without, if you want hall sensor, contact...

maytech.cn

The water cooled version, the lower RPMs of that monster motor will give you a cooler and torquier motor setup and combined with a reasonable overdrive pulley (1:5?) to that bower might give you the full potential!

 

[AlexLTDLX]

My biggest concern is that motor's only rated for 10.5 kW peak. While it's lower rpm nature will net some additional torque, ultimately, I don't think it would do as well as the direct drive, faster and higher powered inrunners out there already.

 

[cmoalem]

here an older snapshot of the version with gearbox which implements internally a 3.6:1 step-up (below page says internal helical gear, current sales ad says Gilmer style, WHAT?) and accepts standard paxton/vortech pulleys modded to metric keying:




stolen from here:

NEW-ish SUPERCHARGER ON THE MARKET [ V2 clone] SpeedMaster - S2KI Honda S2000 Forums

S2000 Forced Induction - NEW-ish SUPERCHARGER ON THE MARKET [ V2 clone] SpeedMaster - Alright, so I'm in the process of researching places rebuilding my Vortech V2 unit. I have researched some places, but im leaning on going with Jon Bond's services.>> https://jonbondperformance.com/

www.s2ki.com

anyway ... mine is scheduled to arrive in 2 weeks, will keep you updated regarding the small impeller shaft end.

 

[cmoalem]

... and here the other belt geared centrifugal stuff ... including upgraded output shaft and SKF ceramic bearing replacements :

BD11a – Jon Bond Performance LLC

www.jonbondperformance.com

JB knows about the P-2 (as mentioned in the s2000 forum post above) as well ... (so most likely he can help here as well, if modifications/repais are needed)

 

[MkngStffAwesome]

It was like $2200+...

 

[AlexLTDLX]

I just poked around for a BD-11 - man, the prices have skyrocketed. You might have luck on the corral:

Power Adders For Sale

This Forum is to list power adders for sale or wanted. This includes superchargers, N2O, turbochargers, and related equipment. Please, no other products.

www.corral.net

But living in NZ, I'm sure it could be difficult.

cmoalem - that looks basically like a Vortech Si knockoff - even the specs are the same. That's basically what I'm using; but if you wanted direct drive, the one I linked to at the top of this thread is the same exact volute & impeller; but a lot cheaper. Did you see the video I made when I took my blower apart?

If that blower is a knockoff, then that's what you can expect.

 

[cmoalem]

I just poked around for a BD-11 - man, the prices have skyrocketed. You might have luck on the corral:

Power Adders For Sale

This Forum is to list power adders for sale or wanted. This includes superchargers, N2O, turbochargers, and related equipment. Please, no other products.

www.corral.net

But living in NZ, I'm sure it could be difficult.

cmoalem - that looks basically like a Vortech Si knockoff - even the specs are the same. That's basically what I'm using; but if you wanted direct drive, the one I linked to at the top of this thread is the same exact volute & impeller; but a lot cheaper. Did you see the video I made when I took my blower apart?

If that blower is a knockoff, then that's what you can expect.

Yes, Alex. The one you have referenced on top of this thread is exactly what I have ordered from speedmaster ebay shop (as they ship internationally via ebay GSP for a reasonable price) !

Speedmaster ( PCE ) P-2 ... same specs as the Vortex V2 Si, Powerdyne BD11, Paxton NOVI 1200, Cool Charger ... etc ... but just missing the "gear box"/step up.

 

[AlexLTDLX]

Nice! You're literally the first one to order one for this purpose that I know of! I'm thinking if we can find the "optimum" setup for this blower, maybe this will be a "sweet spot" for direct drive e turbos. Then there are two options for more power: either go bigger (which will involve a gear step up) or just go for two or three or four of these on one car in parallel.

Imagine 4 of these on one car...

 

[cmoalem]

Nice! You're literally the first one to order one for this purpose that I know of! I'm thinking if we can find the "optimum" setup for this blower, maybe this will be a "sweet spot" for direct drive e turbos. Then there are two options for more power: either go bigger (which will involve a gear step up) or just go for two or three or four of these on one car in parallel.

Imagine 4 of these on one car...

LOL ... my imagination would blow this thread!
shall I start (not) ?

 

[cmoalem]

sooo ... finally the PCE P-2 has arrived.

While it seems to be well built with nicely machined parts, here are my main grievances:


NSK 6003z output shaft bearings!
Those are deep groove steel ball bearings rated to a max of 22000 rpm only! (52000rpm my lower back! ... and I ordered directly from speedmasters ebay shop!)
So ... an upgrade of those will be additional cost!
Most likely I will destroy them anyway when pulling them off for shaft machining ... (similar to what happened to Alex).

For the unlikely case anyone wants to really set up some gilmer drive adaptation:


Looks like a 1" belt width only! CRAP
The standard powerdyne 11a rebuild kits come with 1.5" belts!
Besides the effort to unload the eMotor from side loads (input side) this for me surely looks like another reason to adapt the emotor directly to the output shaft!
I see already Alex hex drive trick in front of my inner eye...

On the positive side:
I could peek into the volute...
The impeller fins expand to the outer impeller edge ... looks like I have a Si trim! (cast not machined from billet, but ok for now).

Going to source some sealed ceramic ball bearings first ... now I understand why it took alex some time ... certainly there will be more onion layers to peel off!

 

[AlexLTDLX]

Thank you SO much for posting those pics. The Vortech came with Nachi 7203C bearings. With grease lubrication, their limiting speed is 41,000 rpm; and with oil it's 56,000 rpm. Since we've only hit 28,000 rpm so far, I doubt we'll hit even 40k. Fortunately they're not expensive - I paid about $15 each. Although I have to be honest - with direct drive and no side loading, those 6003z bearings will probably be ok. The problem with the Nachi bearings I have is they're not shielded. Even thought I'm using Kluber's Iso Flex 15 lube, there's nothing to really keep it on the bearing (I did make teflon "shields" but one failed because it had to be made really thin, and I really don't think the other one does much.)

I'm actually considering buying one of those myself and converting it to hex drive and use my smaller TP Power motor. Maybe I'll run twins!

Can you post some more pics? In particular I'd like to see the rear bearing cup and some close up pics of the inducer. If you take it apart (at least the volute off - which should be relatively easy), I'd like to see the impeller.

Thanks again!

 

[cmoalem]

Thank you SO much for posting those pics. The Vortech came with Nachi 7203C bearings. With grease lubrication, their limiting speed is 41,000 rpm; and with oil it's 56,000 rpm. Since we've only hit 28,000 rpm so far, I doubt we'll hit even 40k. Fortunately they're not expensive - I paid about $15 each. Although I have to be honest - with direct drive and no side loading, those 6003z bearings will probably be ok. The problem with the Nachi bearings I have is they're not shielded. Even thought I'm using Kluber's Iso Flex 15 lube, there's nothing to really keep it on the bearing (I did make teflon "shields" but one failed because it had to be made really thin, and I really don't think the other one does much.)

I'm actually considering buying one of those myself and converting it to hex drive and use my smaller TP Power motor. Maybe I'll run twins!

Can you post some more pics? In particular I'd like to see the rear bearing cup and some close up pics of the inducer. If you take it apart (at least the volute off - which should be relatively easy), I'd like to see the impeller.

Thanks again!

ask and you shall receive

rear bearing cup:


no spring whasher, but indent for inner bearing race and shaft:



volute:






impeller:







balancing at the shaft fitting:



some more general pics:

 

[AlexLTDLX]

That thing is frighteningly perfect for this kind of thing. Looking at your pics, I would actually belt drive that thing - it would make the unit more compact, and you won't need to modify it at all. The biggest advantage is that you could "fine tune" the drive ratio to optimize motor power vs rpm based on your application. In other words, let's say your motor has a peak RPM of 50,000, and it's "sweet spot" for maximum torque is 40,000 rpm, but you only need 30,000 rpm impeller speed to achieve your hp goals. If the cog pulley on there is 24mm in diameter (for example), then you'd need an 18mm motor pulley and a short belt. There's really only 3 pieces you need to make and the entire motor/blower assembly only costs around $1,000 - less than I have in my current setup, and mine is bulkier and took a lot more work.

Forgive my (non-existent) TinkerCad skills, but this is the most complicated piece - and it's pretty simple - to make. The motor plate:



The three holes in an "arc" are supposed to be a smooth, arced slot - I just don't know how to do that in TinkerCad. The motor gets bolted to this plate, the "ear" with the single hole is your tensioning pivot bolt; the arced slot is your belt tensioning hole and then just two fairly thick walled spacers to space the motor plate off the back of the blower - like where you're holding the motor in this pic of yours:


Of course, the exact location of the "ears" on the motor plate should line up with the existing holes on the blower - they'd probably end up not in line with each other. All we need is to find the pitch of the gilmer pulley, locate pulleys that'll work (one of the members on here is a machinist - WB Projects - he's got a CNC setup and could actually make them, I'm sure.) Heck, you could make one on a manual mill with an indexing head if we can't find any. And of course, see what belts are available. I'm not worried about the belt being only 1" wide.

The primary reason why powerdynes would break the belts (back in the day a lot of Mustang guys ran them; since my car is basically a Fox chassis Mustang with a 5" longer wheelbase, I've been a member of a Mustang forum for over 20 years - I remember those issues) is the sudden shock loads from gear changes (mostly stick shift guys) would destroy the belts. We don't have that issue.

This makes things SO easy. Can you see if you can figure out the pitch of the pulley so we can start looking around for other pulleys and belts? I'm fairly sure I'll be ordering one of those blowers in the very near future because I've already got a second motor, and my new LTO packs should have plenty of power to run two e-turbos. Thanks to you, I think my next phase will now be running twins. Well, not twins exactly, but close enough - my current Si trim and this thing - which is basically a copy of mine with a much better suited drive/back plate.

Thanks again!

 

[cmoalem]

That thing is frighteningly perfect for this kind of thing. Looking at your pics, I would actually belt drive that thing - it would make the unit more compact, and you won't need to modify it at all. The biggest advantage is that you could "fine tune" the drive ratio to optimize motor power vs rpm based on your application. In other words, let's say your motor has a peak RPM of 50,000, and it's "sweet spot" for maximum torque is 40,000 rpm, but you only need 30,000 rpm impeller speed to achieve your hp goals. If the cog pulley on there is 24mm in diameter (for example), then you'd need an 18mm motor pulley and a short belt. There's really only 3 pieces you need to make and the entire motor/blower assembly only costs around $1,000 - less than I have in my current setup, and mine is bulkier and took a lot more work.

Forgive my (non-existent) TinkerCad skills, but this is the most complicated piece - and it's pretty simple - to make. The motor plate:
View attachment 84
View attachment 85

The three holes in an "arc" are supposed to be a smooth, arced slot - I just don't know how to do that in TinkerCad. The motor gets bolted to this plate, the "ear" with the single hole is your tensioning pivot bolt; the arced slot is your belt tensioning hole and then just two fairly thick walled spacers to space the motor plate off the back of the blower - like where you're holding the motor in this pic of yours:
View attachment 86

Of course, the exact location of the "ears" on the motor plate should line up with the existing holes on the blower - they'd probably end up not in line with each other. All we need is to find the pitch of the gilmer pulley, locate pulleys that'll work (one of the members on here is a machinist - WB Projects - he's got a CNC setup and could actually make them, I'm sure.) Heck, you could make one on a manual mill with an indexing head if we can't find any. And of course, see what belts are available. I'm not worried about the belt being only 1" wide.

The primary reason why powerdynes would break the belts (back in the day a lot of Mustang guys ran them; since my car is basically a Fox chassis Mustang with a 5" longer wheelbase, I've been a member of a Mustang forum for over 20 years - I remember those issues) is the sudden shock loads from gear changes (mostly stick shift guys) would destroy the belts. We don't have that issue.

This makes things SO easy. Can you see if you can figure out the pitch of the pulley so we can start looking around for other pulleys and belts? I'm fairly sure I'll be ordering one of those blowers in the very near future because I've already got a second motor, and my new LTO packs should have plenty of power to run two e-turbos. Thanks to you, I think my next phase will now be running twins. Well, not twins exactly, but close enough - my current Si trim and this thing - which is basically a copy of mine with a much better suited drive/back plate.

Thanks again!

measured diameter of the gilmer pulley: 28mm ==> ~88mm circumference.

it has 18 teeth/notches

pitch I would say would be circumference/notches : 88/18 = ~5mm

I was actually contemplating the idea to build a "base plate" to mount the motor on "spacers" and drive a pulley as well.
Challenge:
The shaft of the TP5860 is only 30mm long.
on those 30mm we have to accomodate the width of the belt 25.4mm, the base plate where the motor mounts to ... AND ideally a second bearing to support the tip of the motor shaft!
(I would hate to put leverage on a single tiny motor output bearing!)

in contrast: the 6 mounting holes of the motor are arranged on a circle with 30mm diameter only and are M4s.
will get tricky to omit a mounting plate (using e.g. long bolts and spacer tubes) and then accomodate a 28mm/18 tooth cog (for 1:1 ratio).

soooo ... a belt drive has charme, yes!
But maybe I would try to find a motor with longer shaft? ... or drive a input cog "differently"

 

[AlexLTDLX]

I would have no issues running a pulley 5-8mm past the end of the motor shaft. There doesn't need to be much side load - the teeth on the belt help us out a lot. I agree a second bearing would be nice, but I kinda doubt it's necessary. The biggest advantage we have over the RC guys is that we're only running our motors for literally seconds at a time. Thanks for this pulley info! I need to step out for a bit, but I'll poke around online later and see what I can find.

Frankly, I'm rather excited about this particular setup. This opens the door for so many people who don't have access to machining stuff. If you do it carefully, all you'd need is a skill saw, a drill press and a file. Heck, I built two blower setups in the 90's and early 00's without much more than that. The only welder I had was a HORRIBLE Harbor Freight flux core. I spent a lot of time grinding ugly welds.